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Post by dafyddapiago on Aug 21, 2006 9:40:08 GMT
Craig, Unfortunately your list is 6 short of a full band; and that's without the kitchen sink brigade Dafydd
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Post by dafyddapiago on Aug 21, 2006 9:46:00 GMT
Back to school tomorrow, now perhaps we can hear from the under 20 members on the subject.
Come on ladies and gentlemen, girls and boys, speak your minds!
Dafydd
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Post by scotty on Aug 21, 2006 11:34:25 GMT
Under twenty not at school but i suppose uni counts so here goes my ramble!! I don't believe the situation is as bad as some believe! The younger players in Scotland (myself included ) that are coming through is very encouraging IMHO you have to look no further than the top 3 scottish bands to find how many talented young Scottish players (say 23 and under) are playing at the top level! Whitburn: Me ;D Graham Fraser Robert Fraser Anna conway Scott Forrest Rhona Barr Stewart Brynes Rebekah Caldwell Richard Kidd Kirkintilloch: Alex Ramsey Hazel Barr Co-op: Caroline Munro Lucy Forbes Dave Hamilton I think those numbers, all dedicated and talented bandspersons speak for themselves. Also the youth band work particularly in the borders, west lothian (which i was fortunate enough to be part of) aberdeenshire, campbeltown and also in arbroath are doing some fantastic work and should be encouraged in everyway possible. So its not all doom and gloom in that respect!
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Post by umchugger on Aug 21, 2006 12:33:32 GMT
More power to the elbows of councils and others in those areas where there is a thriving youth band set up. However, it is fairly evident that the education authorities in other areas are not so forward thinking. I think that at NYBBS this year there were less than six attended from the seven, or so, Fife bands. Money may be a factor but I don't think the encouragement is there either.
I can only speak to my experiences in Fife but I feel that SBBA should be lobbying harder in those less fortunate areas to have brass banding more fairly represented. It is blatantly obvious that in Fife they consider the Youth and Jazz Orchestra's to be a better home for their funds.
If some areas can produce the goods, why can't others?
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smaca
Mezzo forte
Posts: 66
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Post by smaca on Aug 21, 2006 12:46:54 GMT
Great to hear more views and thoughts, which are all encouragiung and positive.
If all the current positives in the movement will increase the amount of competing bands from the lowest ever, increase dwindling audience figures, re-ignite solo contests, re-ignite band contests, stop the cancellation of contests--------------------then we are on the right road.
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Post by jjm on Aug 21, 2006 14:18:46 GMT
If all the current positives in the movement will increase the amount of competing bands from the lowest ever I sometimes ask myself if this is a worthwhile proposition Stuart. There are over 50 competing bands at present and I think that the section sizes are pretty much Ok. If we increase the number of bands aren't we just increasing competition for the, as we have mentioned, dwindling number of future players. Brass banding always comes round to the football analogy but it is the same. Scotland with it's small poopulation cannot support 42 senior teams; it's the same with bands. There is a finite number which is sustainable. I would rather see initiatives which stabilise the current number of bands. In general most bands in the first four sections make the effort to attend the Scottish so perhaps we should be looking at helping the registered fourth section bands to be able to attend that and other contests. At this years Scottish there were seven bands in the fourth section from about ten registered.
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smaca
Mezzo forte
Posts: 66
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Post by smaca on Aug 21, 2006 16:58:30 GMT
John, I have probably exhausted my input on this, and won,t add much more----but--------
If 50 bands is a good level to be at and easier to sustain, then hopefully all the positives mentioned in previous posts and new initiatives will prevent this number dropping to 40 in 5 years time, and 30 in ten years time. I sincerely hope so, and with enthusiastic people like yourself involved this could be achieved.
Enjoyed the debate and views.
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Post by Sharpy on Aug 21, 2006 20:38:02 GMT
Not quite Welsh, only my Mums parents were Welsh! ;D
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Post by gmankb on Aug 21, 2006 21:38:17 GMT
A response to Scott Walker........................
You're making me feel very old young jedi!!!!
(only just) 27 years old and past it, might as well leave it in its case.............
Gordon Kyle Bumper Up Kirkintilloch
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Post by dafyddapiago on Aug 22, 2006 7:25:38 GMT
A response to Scott Walker........................ You're making me feel very old young jedi!!!! (only just) 27 years old and past it, might as well leave it in its case............. Gordon Kyle Bumper Up Kirkintilloch Past it......................... You have another 18 years of practice to reach your peak as a brass player; which is about 45. Then you can maintain this for another 20 years at least until 65 or 70. I give you 2 examples Adolph Herseth was principal trumpet in Chicago Symphony at 75, and the greatest, Maurice Murphy 71, who I watched last night on BBC4 from the proms; playing Elgar's 2nd symphony, absolutely magnificent. Dafydd ap Iago P.S. Another example is Lord Fraser of Milton of Campsie, who cannot be far from you is still secretly practicing his flugel for when young Ramsey moves on to other climes!
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Post by scotty on Aug 22, 2006 11:10:25 GMT
A response to Scott Walker........................ You're making me feel very old young jedi!!!! (only just) 27 years old and past it, might as well leave it in its case............. Gordon Kyle Bumper Up Kirkintilloch ?? Never said anything!
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Post by dafyddapiago on Aug 22, 2006 12:26:04 GMT
A response to Scott Walker........................ You're making me feel very old young jedi!!!! (only just) 27 years old and past it, might as well leave it in its case............. Gordon Kyle Bumper Up Kirkintilloch ?? Never said anything! Precisely.............. you didn't mention him in dispatches, or your elite list ;D Next stop Bb Bass! Dafydd
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davef
Mezzo piano
Posts: 44
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Post by davef on Aug 22, 2006 15:20:11 GMT
Getting back to what Stuart Mac said, having played in the Scottish Open twice with Kinneil and now looking forward to it again this year with Kingdom I'll put money on attendances being the same. We have to be honest with ourselves and say that a big part of the problem of falling attendance and lack of support lies at our own feet and I count myself in that category. How many players who played in last years contest, or even The Scottish in Motherwell can honestly say they listened to two or more bands on the day, precious few I would suggest. There are two many distractions ( otherwise known as pubs ) in our around our venues. Contests have changed, average ages of participants have fallen, I'm afraid it's a fact of life. The people in Scotland who love brass bands are 99% the people who play in them. We all get it at work, "you play in a what ? you mean that oompah stuff" We have to start educating people, West Lothian could be used as a good example of trying to bring brass to the people with the Howden Park Festival. Newtongrange with Brass in the Park should also be commended. Both these events are in the Summer - ish ! How about change of dates ? Our two biggest contests are in the Winter, look what happened at Motherwell this year, it was a miracle we got a contest on the Sunday. And Mr James, Hugh Foster and I sat together twenty years ago and suggested 45 would be a good age to retire. So I'm actually in my prime ( not quite I'm still 44) --- Anybody seen Hugh recently ;D ;D Davie Frame ( The slim one in the middle of the bones,Kingdom Brass !!!!)
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Post by dafyddapiago on Aug 22, 2006 15:52:33 GMT
And Mr James, Hugh Foster and I sat together twenty years ago and suggested 45 would be a good age to retire. So I'm actually in my prime ( not quite I'm still 44) --- Anybody seen Hugh recently ;D ;D Davie Frame ( The slim one in the middle of the bones,Kingdom Brass !!!!) You must be playing on an old "G" trombone and using your wooden spoon for a handle. I haven't seen Hugh for a long time, but when you do give him my kind regards. Dafydd ap Iago
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Post by dafyddapiago on Aug 25, 2006 9:13:39 GMT
If I can be so bold and highlight another worrying trend for me, and that's the size of audiences attending/listening to these contests. The old Edinburgh Charities, Scottish Regionals and Whitburn 10/20 years ago were packed houses, particularly when the "bigger" bands came on. An alternative to these contests as highlighted(The Scottish Open) was alarming last year with regards to the amount of people in the hall. The band I play with were on fairly early and there were a maximum of 20 people in the hall to listen. No we are not a "big" band, but even still, no interest from the many hundreds out in the corridors. Approx. and hour later, the Scottish Co-op came on stage, with Roger Webster guesting, and this time lucky if there were 50 in the hall. Again, audience trend is downwards, and may if not addressed, result in the demise of this contest in time. Stuart makes a very valid point here, and I've been waiting for people to address it, but no one has (apart from the rather slim 2nd trombone in Kingdom Brass). Is this because there is a collective guilt complex going on and people are ignoring it? I suspect that many (not all) use a band contest as an excuse for a p***up, and after they've played they head for the nearest bar with the excuse they need to replenish their bodily fluids. Why with alcohol I've never understood. If bandsmen are not prepared to go and listen to other bands, how can we expect the general public to do so. Perhaps Diane can give us a breakdown of the approximate number of people listening to each band at Troon this weekend. Dafydd ap Iago
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